Practical Ways to Include people with disabilities in design

we're recording video under sorry it's

audio file times rusticles a laptop

actually ok so hello everyone thanks for

being here 9

my name is Lisa Marie

I am the UI UX designer s PR consulting

near town do a lot of quite wordy work

on stuff my background is actually in

animation and then the only time I could

get was web design and then I kind of

transformed into UX as most graphic

designers have done and so now I'm doing

UX and I'm actually going into Paul but

I go downtown which is not as fancy as

this place we tell you they put us in a

building and you know I'm just there

there's not even plugins and the walls

and the desks so somebody like that

oh but as you can see I talk I like

talking about this topic because I have

some experience with disability being in

a wheelchair I was born without certain

track parts that just kind of move

together and just did a wheelchair run

away I grew up outside of Chicago where

there was very little resources to be

independent and it just kind of relied

on my parents and my brothers to kind of

grow up as an infinite person and I

didn't really get in the disabilities

space until I'm felicity I remember

being very like apprehensive about it

like oh you know I always separated

myself I'm not like them I different I'm

normal and when you grow up we kind of

mature you kind of realize well it's

okay to be different

and everyone it was a good community to

define especially jicama there's a lot

of awesome people here doing the awesome

things

so with them introduce you to how you

include that community in your design

research Cody whatever you do are the

designers in here most covers all right

cool cool uh anybody do UX when it's a

lot after an awesome you may do research

ok good mom these thumbs down

they don't do responsible so we are

going to see sans um well let's talk

about what this is going to be mostly

like research base or maybe how you

engage the community in general no

matter what kind of project you have so

first the big trendy topic right now

inclusive design might stop talking

about air babies talking about it all

three names are like we're inclusive

it's awesome and to me when a company

talks about be inclusive it makes me

kind of like I think it's great but it's

like but really are you you know our

hair you know how many people with

disabilities you employ and they're like

well we have look at our new you know he

broke slate once that counts right

this is so I'm very apprehensive about

this topic hurt when I hear people say

this because it's really good attention

but sometimes you can completely miss

the mark and you edge towards sympathy

instead of empathy and so first

oh great about this like see it's cool

it is cool to be inclusive if you don't

if you aren't inclusive you see it's a

negative thing my bad

I don't I don't do it right well it's

okay if you don't understand what that

means so it first step tip meeting but

you don't know anything is timidly work

yeah admit that you don't know anything

this might be a bit on me in history

remember I guess I can't describe it

it's it's the it's a golden retriever

the glass that's trying to do science

and he's just pouring it in a coffee cup

which I assume is cylinders fuck up you

know maybe

well this is I've no idea what I'm doing

and that's what a lot of people won't

don't want to admit and that's okay

so we're going to talk well the key

thing here is to talk to someone with a

disability and get their opinion

especially on research is they're gonna

know the best way to test your product

in their perspective so my drug will oh

she looks happy we're going to be happy

by the end of this talk so first to

understand the disability community for

me it really empowered me as a disabled

person to understand the history of

civil rights and how amazingly crazy it

is so first we have disability rights

movement has been going on since the

sixties and seventies and picked right

back it picked up right what the civil

rights movement was going on as well and

this was a slogan of the 1998 a nothing

about us without us and this is a really

powerful statement because I think it

applies to literally every minority ever

you know we talked about that now with

diversity with Ahmed Maher in minority

communities like latina it's all those

sorts of communities and this applies to

disability to no one is going to be able

to tell you how what works for

accessibility

so first we have exa 78

David 19 laden from buses in a busy

Denver Colorado intersection for two

days to protest the lack of access and

buses this was in the seventies this

group a day I think turned into a

definite they were death they just got

on the Boosters and laid in front of

buses like how bad asked that I never

even do that teach me this is go ahead I

found it I met other people in civil

community

it's so cool and because of that Denver

has had accessible buses waiting before

anybody else in the entire country uh

the 1998 yeah I feel like I got this to

like it was like happy-go-lucky oh we've

had Syrians with Disability Act it was

great you know was see bush senior he

wanted it everyone loved it but it

actually stalled in committee and in

response the disabled community there's

four hundred protesters there and sixty

of them got out of the military and

crawled up the stairs as senators were

coming out of the building and this very

famous shot of this young girl who was

probably 12 or 13 at the time you know

getting a awesome cool about how she's

fighting her burger future because they

can't even get into a building that

represents them and how they were very

invisible and then this scene is a great

kind of late Renaissance image where you

have like ten cameras at the top here as

these people are crawling up these

stairs

Sperry with me it's just it blows me

away

and then right we solved it good boy 70

guys remember when a guy that's

president almost meet his name was uh

well they were trying to repeal the ACA

and adapt which is a very kind of like

awesome radical protest group they go in

and they put their bodies on the line

and like to citizens and Diane's they

call them and this was a diet for Carl's

office to produce the in da revealed our

ACA repeal and this woman here named

Stephanie Woodward

she was arrested and cupped in her chair

now you know I don't trust people to

push me so the fact that she had to be

pushed out water and they're cuffed is

like my boys and there is a gentleman

who was like being dragged out of the

office by Capitol Police protesting the

repealed

pretty good I mean

I learned a lot about community they did

a lot of hardcore stuff that no one

really ever knows well so now you can

see this this image of disabled people

kind of being like oh we need to help

them because otherwise they will be able

access the world or they will be able to

be independent without me the designer

you know the design can be power and if

you have the power to make it better you

should but not because you want to their

charity case you want to make better but

because we want the big ones in the

world and that includes everyone so how

do that we talked to the people we're

trying to help so interesting saying the

World Health Organization five or ten

years ago they redefined their

definition of disability and then I'll

show you the soccer quick disability is

a complex phenomenon reflecting the

interaction between the features of the

person's body and features at this

society in which he or she lives and

then at the bottom I cross that complex

phenomenon and put experience so

basically this definition is I'm not the

problem the problem has you designed

those stairs without a ramp and that

takes the burden off the people with

disabilities to be your whole and to

kind of come back from the medical model

at the cinemas and society and says hey

society should probably change for them

you know we we make things to augment

ourselves all the time you know classes

are like the original prosthetic wearer

and now we don't we and people where

they're going to cool

so I mean imagine like ten years in the

future people get wheelchairs to see

also many girls I'm cool with it behind

that uh supper how do we know does

anybody know we need to save the

resources in the area like eat groups

it's okay if you don't

okay well thanks to advocates sickness

and easy keys my keys

there is pretty much an independent

living center in pretty much every part

of the country and there's one in every

county in Illinois and we'll go to the

back later but the first step is to find

these communities are out there already

helping people and I put some ones that

are here didn't say actually we actually

have a mayor's office for people with

disabilities she's awesome her name's

Karen family she is on the United States

access board which some of you who might

be familiar with the WCAG rules they

oversee guidelines for like the

transportation department and all sorts

of things on what has to be accessible

she's in the city and not she's the

president and she gets to be on the

front lines talking about what the

government needs to actually push for

and especially in that sort of space and

she's awesome

so there are curious go look on my

website terribly non-accessible

buzz fling

anyway I'll pay them no access living

here in Chicago they are brass up up

Clark there are a great group of people

who love a QC in the city they do a lot

of lawman in the city and Springfield

they actually sue the city of Chicago

because of the lack of portable

accommodated housing and they're really

reaching than the intersectionality of

disability in general it's pretty

awesome

and then the strong the white house is a

great resource if you're looking for

some uses free reader they there a lot

of lines that are blind visually

impaired they signatures

my people

that's their group it's great they teach

people any screen readers if you've been

blind recently and you learn they have

all sorts of resources and I think they

have a podcast and all they're still

doing it is check it out it's pretty

great

and then the Great Lakes a TA Center is

also another like hub to learn and it's

not on Roosevelt good people teach you

how to use certain resources how to cope

with an injury how do you better um in

general this is a laser corner nice okay

Oh exciting

so here the general ones you can look

for local universities they're always

going to have disability office they

have one here they can be hit or miss to

be honest whether it's people just don't

understand or they're actually really

involved so think with a grain of salt

senior centers do looking for the older

community I mean people love to test

your products mature social behaviors

the interesting thing about Facebook and

the whole price thing was faced with the

social media has been huge for people

with disabilities they've been able to

connect and grow communities online and

so it makes it especially vulnerable to

like all the the Facebook's with so

another reason to keep fighting against

them and then active disability advocacy

groups so sometimes we'll see these in

the news we have like adapt and that's

the major one well there's other like

ones online source I'm Twitter disable

Twitter is really popular in big you

know always go with the hashtag there's

some Ally hashtags which many of you

might know a11y those hero here's the

map border the as you can see in every

county we have in mental in the office

so if you're looking you know where

yours Davis era got some there's monthly

it's pretty great what these resources

offer especially independent living

centers is they are kind of a hop with a

community for people with disabilities

I never went to my I grew up because it

felt very stuffy to me but I was also

teenager knows but they do a lot of

great work they have efficacy they have

technical training or help for schools

or people in this in the community they

have they teach independently these

fields we do we need it like how do you

cook when you're sitting down the time

or how do you do this or how you grocery

shop and you have a wheelchair that kind

of they're an information hub for like

grants and researches for their family I

know like when I was young my parents

couldn't afford to put a rack on the

house so they were industry mental and

helping hit that on my house lucky

in and out easier and they are often

staffed by people with disabilities

which is really awesome

you know doing their own work

universities and colleges students love

to earn extra buck reach out there and

then they usually already have your

technical experience that you're looking

for and then social media kind of talked

about this but as you can see you know

they open up floods of workers YouTube

channels like very explains where like

hey you know you have more honor how do

you do your hair not afraid this is a

little robot arm it's it can't use for

everyday things all the time but so lots

of blogs gaming groups Microsoft had

their controller come out and there was

huge to me before that where they

augmented their own controllers they

like 3d printing analyzer and then like

I said it's a Twitter so first step

oh we have a dog up here who has who's

wearing tie for important gold retriever

typing on a laptop and looking very

happy about it

Oh set out in front of an email reach

out to your dependent living center they

all have contact emails and there's lots

of disabled like newsletters and they

sell the kind like I wanted to interview

someone who was blind and they got sent

out for like a statewide who's list I

had tons of people just emailing me

explain the product a little bit like

hey we're trying to do usability testing

on this app that we have would you be

interested in helping us out so let's

say you've recruited you got people

coming in and this is the part where I

think people who will admit their most

well most intensive when they have to

interact people disabilities because

maybe it's something you're not which to

organ tuan to say the wrong thing if you

don't want to like they don't feel bad

but there are some things you should

consider and that's the first step to

making sure these little movie so

location

in the city is a CTA stop closest to

where you're going have an elevator

why don't we don't write you in red

light as it closed or can they get in

the building there's a BMI with you once

where they were just stairs there okay

which I've gotten a few beat up so if

you wanna beat us it'd be great if you

could just know that in the event so

that even if it's not accessible just

call it out so that people are go

they're disappointed they can go ahead

of time it's really nice

they start parking your bike they're

driving does it cost let them know and I

never students hundred percent

accessible okay that's fine

well it's really thinner miss just

kindly explain what's there which is the

like to get up to the skylight in the

Sears power I once went through one of

their freight elevators that is probably

like a whole story tall and whether

there's no signs to it it was just an

open floor and they just took you up it

this is amazing cheerful

so definitely what it picks it out way

I've seen some crazy back doors to get

into places I've been in like an elderly

if they can crank because they can

replace it because is in the kitchen

I've seen some weird stuff turning air

on the city it's also terrifying um

timing so paratransit favorite pace it's

really a reliable takes forever I've

heard of people who are blindly they get

picked up and they're going the

destination put the paratransit driver

well like take them somewhere else and

then take them to their destination so

it's there might be police need to find

paratransit yeah so um you have pasted

on the suburbs so paratransit is

basically you can call a service the day

before and say can you pick me up at

this time you take me to this place so

it's especially helpful if you don't

want to take the metro in or you don't

live close to the Metro this is being

kind of supplemented with uber uber has

super weight now and I'm used to few

times and it's not that bad

section 40 there's a lot of Roy drivers

who I've seen repeat repeats do they

they do it over over again so I seen a

lot um but I have a man so I don't use

them but on the suburbs gets scarce um

so that's what kind of paratransit takes

up the slack but the politics of it and

how they're funded and probably get

money for the rides

it's very complicated of course so it

tends to lead to a lot of either missed

rides or delayed rides and I can I've

had two paratransit drivers I've just

like rolling on State Street and I've

had two of them to stop and be like hey

are you so it so I was like no when

they're like okay like they were looking

for the person they're trying to pick up

and they just yell out the window with

me because I was in a wheelchair and

they assumed it was me so it's so it's a

flexible

oh goodness isn't technology from what I

understood from what I understand I

don't use a screen reader so it can be

up for the person but let them use their

own equipment especially if you're just

testing these ability of the app not

necessarily the usability of the

equipment so if you are testing a new

tree reader then you want them to use it

but if you're just sensing your looks

like don't don't try to get your own

setup is it's just going to give you

results and it's gonna make it seem like

it's harder to internet to get used to

the Senate themselves so if you get get

familiar earth give them time to go

through it and there's a bunch of

research out there in it I didn't pull

it up but you know screen reader users

will rip your stuff apart and pretty

much pretty quick compared to a normal

user it's very cost efficient

and here's the here's the party baby

just like you would a normal person

doesn't disability give them money for

their time our skill set domain skills

you know and then at the end he was

seriously

I know maybe now that I'm friends with

my industry oh just act always have the

door open for anything they might need

extra Mayo I have a service dog is

coming so this is to our session I'm

adding the abbreviation in between

that's er there's to be aware and just

be open to accepting things that they

might bring up cuz they will bring up

we're all pretty smart to know that

people can read our minds so so just to

recap location timing assistant tech

payment and additional access so now

here comes the scary part people with

disabilities I know

I know everyone's scared that you don't

so what if there is a dog laying down

looking out very cute but also worried

we don't know which one it is and the

caption read says what if I say the

wrong thing

what if I say okay yeah you want to take

a walk or hey see you later do

somebody's flying no one really cares

it's fine I say I'm gonna walk to the

place all the time because I say I'm

rolling it sometimes sounds off just

it's fine

local isms fine so the biggest thing is

teamwork be open to feedback don't be

afraid to be corrected and remember we

are just people and you won't be perfect

and it just treat him like a person and

you'll definitely be fine

hey it'll be apprehensive at first

probably

then again we say we did this is this

rhythm it's something she's

told you it would but this is now we'll

have question time and this is my dog

Patrick that I just got the coupons so

the recap is just it's like every other

testing session you just have to plan a

little bit more just kind of like being

disabled though that's why I'm a

terrible planner I forget stuff all the

time

I forgot medical supplies that I needed

my parents it through before hours away

and we need to go to the hospital

because I forgot them you would think

after like 20 years I would remember

nope

so questions yes regarding website

usability yes

besides screen reader users names and

mouse users yeah

categories of disabilities

whether minors need to be sure to

consider I think the big one right now

is like their diversity with which is

like different sort of intellectual

disabilities so is their content

readable is it succinct and easy to

understand and digest and that's really

good for usability overall you don't

want a lot of things to conflict' with

memory or time or age reading level and

that's something that is really great

because it applies all types of

usability I'm not sure exactly how you

go about testing because there's still a

little bit of like because some people

who have earned our neighbors can't

necessarily consent depending on how

they are where they live so just that

that gets a little tricky but I'd say

that's more minimal skill and then

anything else but color as well it's

good one

okay next generation of accessible

guidelines

looking for ways to address cognitive

disabilities so

that

definitely in advance local stuff

but if you if you focus on making here

website usable and for kids

people each other especially for

resources that are specifically tailored

to that

further I guess would be the red best

resource to nudge an existing site into

being more compliant like like who like

who like like clients are just kind of

like well who's going to use the site

like our group would you know you to say

hey use your site and it's unusable and

well um remember why group let's let's

do the thinking sir so like what kind of

domain would you do a leg up like

government to have an agency website

well for one there's definitely laws

covered that I believe the access for

and then 504 done before by the way by

the way they have specific things that

has been ruled against the Indiana

government websites have to be compliant

and you could just have some you know

someone is a scream you to reach out and

then if they complained maybe that's the

niche that they need to active that you

can go to the DOJ website and look for

way back and it will pull up all of the

businesses more businesses but that they

have eight sentence against and that

they've had some trance on to what they

have each birth do the other thing that

can help any business is that Google is

starting to track some of these

accessibility things and if in my

experience anytime Google starts to

track something eventually it will end

up in the search it'll end up in

affecting your search results so

lighthouse is an audit tool from Google

and they have accessibility scores that

you can track and monitor over time and

it's based on the way back but if Google

cares about it

search engines will at some point to

also I've seen consulting agencies that

will bring someone they know or have

someone with this reader come in and

they will record them using the website

so you can show clients like look they

know one can use it you know and that is

very motivating to see someone not be

able to use your website

we will connect with WCAG this year yeah

website accessibility and

fuck

and you have like questions about maybe

you know this is kind of a safe space is

there any like apprehensive then you've

had with working with me for the stories

maybe never had a chance to ask and you

just want to make sure you feel

comfortable okay so there's this weird

line to walk between asking someone's

opinion and asking them to represent an

entire room do you have any any

guidelines

I had a string that balance yeah it's I

mean I would I would give you might be

about screen reader assessment but I

don't use one every day so it'd be hard

for me to like be the final word on it

but in the end you're just getting

someone's perspective so if you're gonna

if you have a website and you're gonna

go your audiences moms to have new

children and you interview fine with

them you know that those are only five

opinions right they're not going to

represent the entire community of people

who have who are mothers and are new to

motherhood and so being able to just

like taking them into a cow be like okay

this is one opinion it might change but

being open to if you get more feedback

in and being able to receive that

feedback is I think what counts like

start there and then open it up salmon

to me to I mean I I thought it was you

know and you ever think about disability

and you my disability I knew by

experience and I disagree with people

who are also in wheelchairs I've gotten

in fights with people who are also

filters and how we view the bus system

I love the buses I know people who hate

them because I think the drivers are

rude and I think well that's probably

you not the bus but

it is tough because every person is

different and some people aren't as open

about their experience

we're tired to talk about it but

let me universe

here is it that

I'm good I just did is it did I mean to

some extent you have the same issue with

with usability testing on on but I put

non-disabled you know users as well in

that that you're only ever going to be

scratching the surface by by talking to

you know I have full of people you're

only getting a handful of opinion

as representative their birth yeah

I

you know I guess I just wanted to be

sensitive about you know asking you know

one blind person or is it oh my people

owe me and then say okay well we tested

it with blind people one person yeah and

maybe they use a different time stream a

river or whatever oh I think that's what

where it comes in with reaching these

communities like the lighthouse because

their collective knowledge is going to

be higher than someone who's just been

off whether I'm using jaws for 20 years

you know the lighthouse is gonna know

all the people and all the stuff a

summer with or run into and all the

errors that they have and so that that's

where the community comes into and to

helps like when I started meeting the

community I learned a lot of things that

I should be asking for that I didn't

this guy was like oh it's fine go stay

with it but other people didn't deal

with it and so everyone has this weird

learning curve

one of my passion is breeding

sergeant's

the man

[Music]

Paul

when it comes to recruiting users it's

like so tell ya my question is

is there any website or

we're very good people users but for

accessibility and usability testing and

the rules that if there

um there's a couple locker notes but I

don't know who is particularly active

that's why these communities that I

outlined you're kind of a good starting

point maybe they can hear I do or they

know hey you know Liz loves doing this

why don't you reach out to her

we just heard we need to start this like

a network of people who are willing I

know like I know women come as a screen

reader used to work McDonald's who

thinks freelance that sort of thing it's

just about getting your project into the

right people in front of the right

people right now and this furry

community in general is really

disconnected sometimes especially people

who identify some people who are deaf

don't identify as being disabled so like

it's it's it's really just like

networking and that's the hard part here

well you're most welcome to send me an

email I can put you in touch with people

who might

I do and this is from a place of trying

to learn a little bit more so I read a

lot about like writing novels and in the

space that I'm in you know there's been

a lot of discussion recently about like

diversity on the ethnic lines and about

how like the default assumption is is

unless if you describe someone's having

dark-skinned people think of that but if

you don't describe the skin color

everyone immediately assumes that

they're they're their Caucasian mm-hmm

a couple of times into the talk you

talked about like a normal person

and like I'm not sure I'm comfortable

like using like oh you know like a

normal person and I don't want to be

like super PC about it yeah and try to

like change that but I just want to like

because I noticed that you said like a

non-disabled person like trying to find

that comfort Speight comfortable space

to refer to someone who doesn't have

disabilities as separate from someone

who has disabilities but not to

reinforce them as quote normal I'm

wondering if you have an opinion about

that or yeah yeah I feel like this is

the thing is Society we're trying to

figure out right now yeah in general but

I know my personal opinion is I use the

example of like my boyfriend he like

when you are thinking about dating

someone or you're going out

you never think you're gonna end up in

someone who's in a wheelchair disabled

but then you do like we talked to him

and I talked to us all the time like I

never imagined I'd be dating someone he

was disabled but I am and that's just

different but it's is okay and the

there's also things like well we don't

want to say they're different but we are

different and that's okay so I think

highlighting the difference aside from

normal because my normal model is

probably different than your normal

model with someone who grew up in a

different town or country their idea of

normal is different than my normal right

it's just kind of what I say no I'm

referring people who want or can see or

and it's tough for me to stop saying

those things as well because it would

still like ingrained in you that well or

I've even heard talk that you don't

wanna use the word

able-body anymore but I liked Houston it

is sort of like a nun as himself but

like my ex able body does understand

like kind of like a joke and you kind of

quote doesn't thing but even I've heard

like please don't say that anymore like

but what am I supposed to say not good

meals here that's way longer I think I

would be respectful but I also want to

like have a short conversation yeah um I

I don't forget in general it's it's when

you bring up is maybe like in

description like someone's a different

race you know bring it up when they

wasn't American gods have you ever

anyone ever read that they made a show

and main character shadow it's black it

and before them know we're all everyone

many thought he was white no but is

black right through the book yeah yeah

are you by right but it matters because

you know in the show is a representative

pair group and like the disability for

me and let's merge immediately is the

disability in the space not they're not

highlighted because they're that one day

like this isn't this isn't a story about

something else are you're overcoming

their in their life which sometimes

that's a cool story but this is a person

who just doing these things and are also

disabled

I know what's funny is I came up a lot

for me like playing Dungeons & Dragons

yeah like should I play someone who's in

a wheelchair should I play don't

understand like somebody walks or

something wheelchair what doesn't make

sense into medieval time mmm so what do

you want anything like even you comes

from what that identity of we're elves

and we're dwarves and we want to be on

these cool things but never a person in

a wheelchair and when does that kind of

come into scope that was not a straight

answer it did thank you

so what would you say that it's a able

body is it dependent on the situation I

don't really get all right but I haven't

got the disability hive collected mind

to agree instead we all disagree amongst

ourselves - it's important to use

language people yet with referee would

yeah

yeah

sometimes they just say

a single point that and then something

like I don't care you know this is just

important I think to

for your conference track

and I mean you will run with people who

are going to be really militant and kind

of angry if you use the wrong word and

then you're gonna read the people at

Goliath don't care so you don't get

scared off by somebody's militant

because main things really been burned

in the past and I even avoid people that

are building the whiticus's makes me

comfortable but I mean sometimes people

who are militant like that lay in front

of slices to get you done

so I big introspective self recently is

like did I fit in this community that

sometimes does militant and really

really pushes things that I don't think

they can you pushed but there's two

different roles that people play in the

community like I do better talking to

people who aren't disabled about my

experience of disabilities than talking

to the community who is disabled about

my experience just because I feel like I

grew up around people who weren't

disabled you see it for me to talk about

it

and someone who maybe didn't grow up

that way is like well you didn't you

won't

the bus driver won't help me and I hate

them yeah about this guy you know he's

forgiving us deal with all these people

on the bus like it's just different

perspectives so be sensitive don't be

scared off because not everyone will we

need to probably

yeah are there are there sources of

disabled media that like we could

consume that have like characters who

are part of the story in a book or a

movie because you know thinking about

this like you know there's you mentioned

being uncomfortable uncomfortable in

those situations

nothing's comfort like familiarity

mm-hmm yeah um it's not for media

there's enough show called speechless

I'm seen use some who I don't know

whatever he's on but speechless is great

it's about a guy I think he has muscular

dystrophy but he's electric wheelchair

and that is the most accurate

representation I've ever seen of growing

up with the disability like I was like I

felt like I was seeing my family on the

screen for the first time ever and I

never had a problem like not seeing

myself on the screen but seeing that was

just like whoa you know it was like a

quote in there where you know growing up

with a disability

your parents 10 if your parents aren't

really rich you know medical stuff costs

a lot of money and we current pretty

poor and living in the show there's a

quote like we bought the crappy ass

house in the best neighborhood and so

there's constantly like this shit it's

falling apart in the house things are

falling apart like that was my house and

I'm just related to that so well about

how you know you have siblings they have

to do everything for you and then they

get weird complexes because the parents

pay attention to the kid with the

civility instead of the siblings and

like I just a plug my own thing I'm

working on a podcast that kind of talks

like this call it simply different and I

don't know what set up I was hoping to

but school and all those things but

that's the kind of stuff I want to talk

about is that sort of media there's a

lot of podcasts you can look up okay

search for disability or my friend Nikki

is doing a podcast in the city here

called disarming disability and she has

one arm said number about our friend yes

it can control her nerves like it knows

her nerve is really cool um see does

anyone else video there's a movie called

station AJ I've seen it amazing yeah but

it's just it's a pretty accurate

portrayal like I like it it's

interesting because you know it's

awkward and sometimes it is for the rest

of the world to be able people of

disabilities sometimes folks who have

disabilities have the same awkwardness

and like trying to figure out how to

live in this world and so that show a

movie I thought showed a great

transparent my favorite like and you

know what that is if I go to a gas

station by myself and the drink that

really wants the top shelf I don't have

the emotional capacity in that moment to

ask someone to get it for me I'll just

pick something else like it's not worth

my time to ask someone and go through

that social interaction I'm just gonna

grab the one I want to leave so like

different decisions that you make every

day that you don't consider it's super

fascinating like sometimes I've got

where I'll see somebody for the door and

I'm like they look at me along

I'm gonna open this door for someone and

I don't like turn and go the other great

way and then come back like this is a

weird thing that I do and it's not

because I don't you know I don't want my

the Derby help for me that's nice to

what sometimes I'm just like I don't

deal with this right now so I'm just

gonna hang back and sit here for a

minute let them go through and then go

through myself so weird stuff yeah

another handsome well follow up on the

on the terminology

it used to be that we referred to

master-slave replication and we don't do

that anymore do you foresee a time when

we won't talk about features being

disabled on that software Oh like thing

is like this is disabled button or

something I never thought of that that's

interesting

I know there's a trend in documentation

to replace the word see like to

effective work navigating instead oh

maybe if we can think of a different

sort of word I suppose see there's these

people have issues with the words to say

well I don't I mean I I make fun of my

friends we always he got this magazine

where it was like this and then Abel was

all capitalized it was really really

clever yes to me that to me that

concepts like someone who is not

disabled trying to be funny and

inclusive and it's fine it's good

attention I would never do some of

public or anything but it just makes me

laugh it's like you try so hard buddy

but yeah that's hard so I think him by

him all the time

here to stay without there and he's like

the the whole thing behind the same

hierarchy like he's more disabled than

me

we had an accent rate can't even say

anymore but he's a programmer and he

like forced himself aside and so like we

I would always go over to his house and

I would get on his couch cuz I'm very

mobile compared to him and he was saying

something to me at one time just being

like you know kind of like riding me a

little bit and I was like you're just

mad because I can hit up your couch and

you can't

and just say that so the public and

people like these are mine and you know

if you left because we're friends but

some people cannot do that so maybe in a

professional world don't do that but a

lot bring something yeah when your user

testing with individually

it would

it would make sense to offer to come

into their airspace their home their

homeless to observe them using whatever

in your testing it seems like it would

be a lot to ask someone to schlep like

you know their screen reader their

computer but whatever it is that they're

using all the way to wherever you're

doing testing I think I think that's a

good option to open up to people but it

depends on the person I have done like

interviews with people that I know are

disabilities and I mean it there they

probably are schlepping to work anyway

so it definitely depends on the person

and what level of disability they have

or what their needs are so you could

offer it I think but don't like don't be

like super pushing they like will have

you come to you it's fine it's fine I

can give you don't be over helpful

because that's really annoying but just

offer it and see if they it's like put

the bait out there they don't want it

don't worry about it

yeah

cab fare whatever

great suggestions isn't it a real

advantage to in person versus butt cam

capture

hmm usability test I don't know if it's

any different than like normal like

almost sort of advantages you get with

remote versus in person at least I came

in you know

the keys user testing yeah just don't

work I think it's a new testing never

again I don't use it personally

obviously do a lot of I don't know house

I was wondering but like Melanie comes

up like its we get feedback that's great

feedback yeah seriously right here yeah

check that out um I would say it's

probably the same amount depending on

their needs they might not be able to

you know I know one of the big things

for like employment for people with

disabilities if they're you're deaf or

hearing a lot of tech companies require

we require phone interviews and I've

known people personally you can't get a

job because there were food Roby like oh

I'll call you back

or I want to set up a call with you and

then like oh I can't you call I need to

do a person or video chat and then they

just don't come back so that's an

unfortunate side of things and this you

know everything's kind of like really

believe optimistic or

got 10 minutes feel like we should call

it early if you want and I'll be around

after a problem I've run into recently

like a website that has 100%

accessibility score but people will say

that's not really meeting the definition

of helping your user and is there a fear

or is there any conversation going on

out there people just gaming lighthouse

mmm is that popped up new to me in the

last couple weeks being like oh yeah alt

text alt text exists lighthouse says

this is okay but like an alt text on one

of my websites like if you want like to

read this go to this page where that

going pages on get up yeah and that

that's what we're I think actually harm

people with disabilities comes in handy

because you know one of my research

papers that I did was like talking about

WCAG rules versus the problems that

users actually ran into and they tested

this they tested a few websites with

screenreader users and they found that

like 60 percent of the errors that they

run into worries ability not WCAG and

WCAG wouldn't even corrected them

oh no okay

the toilet

only about 30% of the air programming li

so you can't have hundred percent my

house poor but it's not picking up on

some of those

and you and you're probably having on

screen reader users are into that

they're able to recover a lot better so

you know really put that usability which

never every whirl great the key thing

there I think that a lot of people talk

about is on any page where you can type

help have a specific dedicated email to

accessibility so sometimes into the

problem mail it doesn't go in their

general box it was no specific box

dedicated to accessibility so if someone

runs a new problem they can tell you

about it because you're probably out on

the edge everything that's just islands

and that's one of the things of the oj

and the manual test

because I'd only that any other test or

they can shoots 30% of the side

and this is pretty cool projects going

on about having websites hankerin like

change to fit the tool which i think is

probably the ultimate way to solve

accessibility is let someone change the

website to match what they need and

still be usable it's just really

exciting stuff image

thanks for coming guys appreciate it

you